How can someone honestly think a garden with cats is going to be full of target species to provide evidence?
Do you think wildlife is really that stupid? You will never see the abundance we once had in our wildlife garden if you have cats so you have no baseline for comparison.
The four feeders in my garden are emptied daily by at least ten different bird species, despite the garden being patrolled several times a day by neighbours' cats. (I don't have any of my own at present, but have had several in the past.) Once or twice a year, a bird is killed by a cat in my garden. It's usually a feral pigeon; as far as I'm aware their numbers are not in decline, or, if they are, not to the extent that anyone in the wildlife protection lobby is concerned about it. Of course, I have no way of knowing what slaughter these same cats commit when they are not in my garden. But I think your claim that cats in gardens = little or no wildlife is pretty far-fetched.
Can you tell us what should be done with all the cats and kittens at present in rescue centres waiting to be re-homed? I would never buy a cat from a breeder, but if and when my personal circumstances change, I would like to adopt a cat or two. And I don't think it's much of a life for a cat to be kept indoors 24/7.
Simple, if you want a cat to go outside, go to the expense to contain it on your own property. There are plenty of internet guides regarding the suitable high and inward facing fencing that will contain a cat.
As a qualified veterinary nurse that was responsible for literally hundreds of cats rescues in the past, indoor cats can live perfectly fulfilling, safe and healthy lives.
I could present a very clear and supported argument for why the issue is just as much about cat welfare, as it is about protecting native wildlife.
However, really enough said on the subject already. The evidence is there for anyone to see if they want to. Those that do not want to, will never see.
As a last comment on this thread... ....It's a rather absurd assumption that artificially attracting birds to feeders represents 'wildlife in a garden' birds can fly. Our cat owning neighbours do exactly the same perverse thing.
Try 3 species of native reptiles and four species of native amphibians. Numerous voles and shrews etc etc.
Our populations were decimated when a new neighbour moved in with 3 cats. It's simple fact, I watched it happen on a daily basis and recorded the declines over months.
Frog population, from 100 breeding pairs to 6 in one season
Common lizard, from 40 adults to 4 in one summer
Hundreds of hours of footage, dozens and dozens of images, not far fetched at all. That is exactly what happened.
We have always had cats, strays or rescues. We feed and neuter, they are indoors and outdoors. They caught mice, dead and alive, a rat (live!), one frog (had to pull the fridge out to rescue it), voles, and yes, birds. And many more probably that we don't know about. My husband is a volunteer with a local animal charity. They trap, neuter and return, if rehoming is not possible. This at least tries to control the population. Cats are not responsible for the decimation of wildlife, people are. Cats do what cats do. People need to be made aware of the damage cats do, and the need to neuter.
Our cat takes no notice of the big pond or the fish in it. She has seen off every cat that has dared to come in the garden. She is a very good mouser, fly and silverfish eater. Has never been interested in frogs or toads, will chase butterflies, damselflies and dragonflies. Hates foxes and badgers and isn't afraid to chase, bop on the nose or growl at them. And if I go in the front or back garden, she is my bodyguard.
Our populations were decimated when a new neighbour moved in with 3 cats. It's simple fact, I watched it happen on a daily basis and recorded the declines over months.
Common lizard, from 40 adults to 4 in one summer
We used to have loads of common lizards in the garden but they're just not capable of dealing with a high population of cats. Any new house around here has to have a reptile survey with a legal requirement to prevent harm to the population of any reptile found but the new owners can move in with a couple of cats and wipe out all the lizards in the surrounding area. At the same time if you trap a grey squirrel it's then illegal to release it because it's an invasive species and harmful to our native wildlife. However feral cats are trapped and released routinely and they're also non-native and do much more damage. The general licence for shooting says you can kill certain birds for causing a threat to wildlife such as nesting birds but the birds being killed are native and only doing what they've done for thousands of years albeit on a population of animals that has been depleated by domestic cats. No one can explain why cats and cat owners get immunity from all the laws that apply to other people and other animals in exactly the same situation.
but anyway here's one of the lizards that used to live around my veg beds
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
Lovely to see @wild edges exactly that, the devastation was extraordinary. As an ecologist specializing in native reptiles and amphibians I always had my suspicions regarding cats and reptiles. To witness the utter devastation first hand and be able to record it, well I have no doubt about the damage at all.
I find it shocking in these threads that when cat issues are discussed there are members who say 'problem what problem?'. If someone posted saying their lawnmower would not start, it would not be helpful for members to post, 'well my works fine, so what is your problem?'.
I don't dislike cats but I would rather see actual native wildlife in my garden, not other peoples' pets. Unfortunately with neighbours who let cats free roam, that choice is taken away from me.
Images from happier times, most of these species are now gone or the populations drastically reduced, is not far fetched as has been said above, it was the awful reality I saw with my own eyes thanks to my neighbours lack of education regarding impacts on wildlife of their pets.
I find it shocking in these threads that when cat issues are discussed there are members who say 'problem what problem?'. If someone posted saying their lawnmower would not start, it would not be helpful for members to post, 'well my works fine, so what is your problem?'.
I don't dislike cats but I would rather see actual native wildlife in my garden, not other peoples' pets. Unfortunately with neighbours who let cats free roam, that choice is taken away from me.
This topic gets hotly debated with fair regularity on this forum. When I first joined I thought gardeners would be mostly against free-roaming cats given that gardeners are often the people who bear the brunt of the problems that cats cause. I've been really surprised by the number of people on here though who will fiercely defend their right to inflict their pets on other people. It doesn't matter how much proof you offer them of the harm they will always come back with some offensive reply suggesting you are over reacting or being melodramatic. This is from people who should know better but I imagine the number of people who don't garden and don't care much about wildlife is much higher.
About half an hour ago, just before it got dark, I had to scare a cat out of my garden, partly because it was making the dog upset and he would no doubt wake the kids if his restraint broke, but mostly because I don't want it hunting in my garden. Less than ten minutes later my wife called me to come and look at the tawny owl that was perched on the bird feeder looking for the rodents clearing up scraps. I'm not sure if a cat would attack an owl but I'd definitely rather the owl takes the voles home to its chicks than have them killed for fun by a cat.
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
Interesting that tonight on Springwatch, in a feature on British native reptiles, it was stated that the greatest predator of slow-worms is the domestic cat.
😢
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Posts
Simple, if you want a cat to go outside, go to the expense to contain it on your own property. There are plenty of internet guides regarding the suitable high and inward facing fencing that will contain a cat.
As a qualified veterinary nurse that was responsible for literally hundreds of cats rescues in the past, indoor cats can live perfectly fulfilling, safe and healthy lives.
I could present a very clear and supported argument for why the issue is just as much about cat welfare, as it is about protecting native wildlife.
However, really enough said on the subject already. The evidence is there for anyone to see if they want to. Those that do not want to, will never see.
Try 3 species of native reptiles and four species of native amphibians. Numerous voles and shrews etc etc.
Our populations were decimated when a new neighbour moved in with 3 cats. It's simple fact, I watched it happen on a daily basis and recorded the declines over months.
Frog population, from 100 breeding pairs to 6 in one season
Common lizard, from 40 adults to 4 in one summer
Hundreds of hours of footage, dozens and dozens of images, not far fetched at all. That is exactly what happened.
My husband is a volunteer with a local animal charity. They trap, neuter and return, if rehoming is not possible. This at least tries to control the population. Cats are not responsible for the decimation of wildlife, people are. Cats do what cats do. People need to be made aware of the damage cats do, and the need to neuter.
I find it shocking in these threads that when cat issues are discussed there are members who say 'problem what problem?'. If someone posted saying their lawnmower would not start, it would not be helpful for members to post, 'well my works fine, so what is your problem?'.
I don't dislike cats but I would rather see actual native wildlife in my garden, not other peoples' pets. Unfortunately with neighbours who let cats free roam, that choice is taken away from me.
Images from happier times, most of these species are now gone or the populations drastically reduced, is not far fetched as has been said above, it was the awful reality I saw with my own eyes thanks to my neighbours lack of education regarding impacts on wildlife of their pets.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.