John Innes No 3 Potted rose shedding

Posts

• edhelka Posts: 2,351

  April 2020

  You are right, it doesn't look good.

  It can be anything you mentioned - underwatering, overwatering or the soil from the diseased rose. We can't really know but the soil in your picture looks wet, is it photographed right after watering? The best way how to tell if you are over or underwatering is to try it with your finger. If the soil is dry a finger deep, it is safe to water (assuming the pot drains well). If it is still moist, it's not needed.
  

  From what I can see from the photo:

  1) The rose has leaves. Were they there when you bought/received it? If yes, the rose wasn't dormant.
  Where and when were they bought? We are at the end of the bare root season and unless the seller of these roses used cold storage, I can imagine you received a rose that was already out of dormancy. In such cases, the rose could get into a transplant shock easily, you would lose the leaves and some dieback would be also expected. Personally, I wouldn't be happy with receiving a rose like that.

  2) The rose is planted incorrectly, the soil level should be higher, right up to the grafting union or even higher. This isn't a reason for it doing poorly though. I don't know if you have any experience with roses or if these are your first ones, so I am sorry if this is a wrong line of thinking. Have you received any instructions for planting? Have you soaked the roots for at least an hour to rehydrate? How long after receiving the rose have you planted it?

  I would recommend checking how moist the compost is (and watering or not as needed) and adding 5-10cm of compost (what the pots allow). Don't spray with anything and don't feed. If all goes well, you will see new growth.
  I've had bare root roses that got too dry and planted late in the season, they can take a long time to recover but as long as the canes are green, there is still hope.
  

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• Mr. Vine Eye Posts: 2,394

  April 2020

  It’s definitely planted too shallowly. You can see actual roots above the soil!
  
  
  
  The soil should be at least an inch above the graft. Soil level about where I’ve drawn that red line - Even if you had to trim the ends of the roots a bit to get it to fit. I don’t think topping up is going to cut it. I’d remove it completely and repot
  
  How much of the old soil did you use? Would be better to have replaced with soil from the garden if possible rather than reuse potting soil that had a rose in - especially a diseased one - but it’s too late to do anything about that now if it’s mixed in. Unless you didn’t mix it in and just poured the old roses soil straight on top - if that’s the case you could scoop that top layer out and replace.
  
  All that said it was planted quite late and it will take time for new growth to show anyway.

  East Yorkshire

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• ma130695 Posts: 4

  April 2020

  Thank you so much for all the advice.

  
  

  I bought these bare root plants from ebay and they arrived already out of dormancy. The other rose however seems to be doing fine. This one lost all of its leaves within a couple of days. I did soak them in water before planting. I have already removed this rose once, a few days ago to check the health of the roots and also to check/loosen the soil. I soaked it in water again before re-planting it because it looked pretty dry even though the soil was still moist but not too wet. The picture I attached was taken after the second planting and watering, the soil sank down a bit but I also tried not to plant it too deep as I read mixed reviews on this topic. All of the roses were originally planted 'deep', graft in the soil. I would say 30% of the soil is from the diseased plant. I have attached some pictures of the previous, diseased rose. I asked for advice from a gardening centre regarding that rose, they suspected transplant shock, too. But the strange thing is the rose was thriving for months and then suddenly started dying. See pictures attached of the previous rose throughout its short life.

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• Busy-Lizzie Posts: 24,043

  April 2020

  You should never plant a rose in soil where a previous rose has been or died. The soil is called "rose sick". Your dying roses, as others have said, are not planted deep enough and to me the compost looks sodden. If kept too wet the roses leaves will shrivel and die, looking as though they've been too dry, so you give them more water and it's worse. Once a rose has started growing the new little white shoots they shouldn't be disturbed. Peter Beales Classic Roses say that if a rose in a pot has started into growth then don't plant them until June when the roots will be strong enough to hold onto the compost.

  Dordogne and Norfolk. Clay in Dordogne, sandy in Norfolk.

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• Marlorena Posts: 8,705

  April 2020

  ..just to add, roses are not houseplants,... they should never be kept indoors... your rose was dying whilst by that radiator... the compost was bone dry...

  East Anglia, England

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• Busy-Lizzie Posts: 24,043

  April 2020

  To clarify - new little white shoots, I was meaning the root shoots in the compost, baby roots.

  Dordogne and Norfolk. Clay in Dordogne, sandy in Norfolk.

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• Fire Posts: 19,096

  April 2020

  Why are they inside?
  

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• Fairygirl Posts: 55,117

  April 2020

  I assume when they were in the house, there was no holes in the bottom of the pot either, as they're sitting directly on a floor...
  
  As @Marlorena says - next to a radiator as well. It's not really giving them any chance to thrive. They're either going to be bone dry or soaking wet. 

  It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
  
  
  
  I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...

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• ma130695 Posts: 4

  April 2020

  There is a hole in the middle of the pot. The soil was never bone dry. They were kept indoors due to very high winds.

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• celcius_kkw Posts: 753

  April 2020 edited April 2020

  You’ve had plenty of very useful replies from the many experienced rose growers here. I couldn’t help but notice that you are a fellow balcony gardener like me (loving that sneak peak of a view by the way). 

  
  

  The only thing I would add is regarding John Innes no 3 - i have experimented a little bit with different potting mixes and I would say John innes no3 definitely does NOT have the best drainage property, especially if you’re using it to pot a small plant in a big pot.. for next time I genuinely urge you to mix in some sand/grit/perlite before you use it. By improving the drainage of the potting mix I believe you would also run a lower risk of ‘over-watering’ because the excess water will just drain out anyway. We have been having some particularly dry, sunny and warm weather in the north west and I’ve been watering my roses in pots every 2 - 3 days (and frankly they could do with a bit more if I had had the time). 

  
  

  Otherwise, please do consider re-potting your rose like the others have mentioned as the bud union does look a teeny bit too high above soil level.. hope it works out well for you! I

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