I still don’t understand. I am really the only person who benefits from me having the vaccine. I am the one who will be less unwell. I can still infect others. I still have to self isolate which causes issues at work.
The issues with the nhs are a different matter, every year as long as I can remember the nhs has struggled to cope and has been in a terrible state in the winter.
Why the persecution of people who choose not to have the vaccine? The people they are affecting are themselves. Of the 4 unvaccinated people I know who caught covid only one was really unwell and was certainly not in a state to need a hospital.
I am not comfortable with demonising people for their beliefs. I am not comfortable with sacking people who refuse to comply against their beliefs. I am not comfortable with papers that prove that I have complied and am therefore acceptable even though I could easily have the virus and spread it to others. Where will this all end?
@debs64, no you are not the only one who benefits from vaccination but as we have all found it's not straightforward. For a number of other viruses and other infections agents, vaccination means you are fully protected, you eliminate the agent quickly do not become infected yourself , and so cannot infect others. This virus is not like that. It's a respiratory virus and initially at least infects the upper airways, it also seems we shed virus and are most infectious BEFORE we show any symptoms. That said vaccination should reduce the likelihood of us being infected and infecting others. Part of the problem is at the moment all the vaccines are based on the original virus and it has mutated several times, since then . We are still playing catch up, a newer version of the vaccine would be more effective at stopping the infection. It will be like flu we will be in a constant race to defeat it unless like Sars cov 1 it mutates so much it stops infecting us.
I think we've got to the stage where you believe it or you don't. Unless non believers or someone close to them gets very seriously ill, they will continue on that path. Has anyone here managed to convince an AV to get jabbed?
@debs64, you cannot extrapolate from a tiny handful of cases known to you personally to make global generalisations. The data which has been so assiduously collected over the past year or two shows us that being fully vaccinated makes you less likely to die, less likely to be seriously ill and hospitalised, less likely to catch the illness, less likely to pass it on.
That is the scenario supported by the overwhelming majority of scientific experts. Why, then, do people reject this and shun vaccines? Because they believe unverifiable nonsense promulgated on social media. You say that criticism of such a standpoint is “demonisation”. I do not see robust rejection of a position that cannot be adequately supported as demonisation. I do not see any reason not to rebuke anti-vaxxers whose unwillingness to take precautionary action constitutes a threat to the rest of us.
I do not want elderly relatives in care homes supported by people who, by not being vaccinated, are a threat. I do not want to be treated by medical staff whose rejection of science casts enormous doubt on their decision making. In my view such folk are not fit to do their jobs and ultimately they have to relinquish their positions.
Where will this all end, you ask. Can you elaborate where you think this is going? Are you implying that vigilance against Covid could ultimately lead to prejudicial behaviour by employers to employees, that legislation protecting workers’ rights will be dismantled? Well, that is not my outlook. Not in the slightest.
Why the persecution of people who choose not to have the vaccine? The people they are affecting are themselves.
I am not comfortable with demonising people for their beliefs. I am not comfortable with sacking people who refuse to comply against their beliefs. I am not comfortable with papers that prove that I have complied and am therefore acceptable even though I could easily have the virus and spread it to others. Where will this all end?
In this country, at the moment, no one is obliged to provide papers to prove they are vaccinated.
The only people who are compelled to be vaccinated in order to work are those whose work brings them into intimate contact with the most vulnerable people in our society. The choice to remain unvaccinated is permitted for everyone else.
I know that there are blame campaigns going on directed at people who have chosen not to be vaccinated. I certainly don't agree with it - as you say, people do have a right to make this choice. But being militantly anti-vax, setting out to deliberately prevent others from exercising that choice for themselves, isn't defending free choice - quite the contrary. The persecution that is being objected to here is by those who are not vaccinated against those who have helped in the vaccination efforts. Those people are vandalising public property, deliberately wasting public money, threatening violence and attempting to intimidate those who disagree with their beliefs. How is that a moral position?
You may not feel any better off for the vaccine, many people do.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
It occurs to me that there is no reason why asymptomatic carriers of covid should not work in hospitals with people who already have covid. Have I got it totally wrong?
From the beginning of this pandemic I have always advocated for the wearing of masks - despite initial ridicule from certain medical factions in France and the UK - plus the distancing and hygiene and, for the last year, the vaccinations. I can neither understand nor condone anyone who thinks not doing all of this is a matter of personal freedom. None of us is an island. We all live or work in family and community groups, no matter how singular we feel, and have a duty others to minimise their risk.
I know people here who are triple vaccinated, wear their mask every time they leave the house and yet are still so terrified of this virus and al the eejits not following the guidelines and not vaccinated that they minimise all social contact and are suffering mental health problems as a result. I'm far more concerned about them than the prats who think they can ignore all the safety guidelines and gamble on their own personal immunity and think the vaccines are ineffective or a government conspiracy.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Some hospitals are likely soon to have 20% of their staff off sick with the virus. Unfortunately other people will die, because they will not get adequate care, that is why everyone needs to be vaccinated, and yes vilification of anti vaxers is understandable.
It is becoming somewhat irritating that the basic facts, whilst having been very well explained, are not being acted upon, in some cases wilfully.
Surely by now everyone knows:
vaccines protect you [ not in everyone and not 100%, but in the vast majority ] vaccines protect others you are in contact with, they reduce transmission. also wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and YES THIS WILL OFFEND, stop going out to crowded places.
People moan to me about why they can't have their operation and then spend all night in a crowded pub, spreading the virus.
If you don't know this, you should and I no longer care whether this offends you or not.
Staff in the NHS are at their limit and even has beens like me seem to be spending hours each day in meetings, trying to solve this crisis.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
I swing between fury and sadness about it. Unless you've been living in a cave for the last 2 years, or only getting your information from those great medical practitioners like Facebook, how can people still not see the reality? If you are living in a cave - it won't affect you, so carry on living there.....
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Posts
Has anyone here managed to convince an AV to get jabbed?
That is the scenario supported by the overwhelming majority of scientific experts. Why, then, do people reject this and shun vaccines? Because they believe unverifiable nonsense promulgated on social media. You say that criticism of such a standpoint is “demonisation”. I do not see robust rejection of a position that cannot be adequately supported as demonisation. I do not see any reason not to rebuke anti-vaxxers whose unwillingness to take precautionary action constitutes a threat to the rest of us.
Where will this all end, you ask. Can you elaborate where you think this is going? Are you implying that vigilance against Covid could ultimately lead to prejudicial behaviour by employers to employees, that legislation protecting workers’ rights will be dismantled? Well, that is not my outlook. Not in the slightest.
The only people who are compelled to be vaccinated in order to work are those whose work brings them into intimate contact with the most vulnerable people in our society.
The choice to remain unvaccinated is permitted for everyone else.
I know that there are blame campaigns going on directed at people who have chosen not to be vaccinated. I certainly don't agree with it - as you say, people do have a right to make this choice. But being militantly anti-vax, setting out to deliberately prevent others from exercising that choice for themselves, isn't defending free choice - quite the contrary. The persecution that is being objected to here is by those who are not vaccinated against those who have helped in the vaccination efforts. Those people are vandalising public property, deliberately wasting public money, threatening violence and attempting to intimidate those who disagree with their beliefs. How is that a moral position?
You may not feel any better off for the vaccine, many people do.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
I know people here who are triple vaccinated, wear their mask every time they leave the house and yet are still so terrified of this virus and al the eejits not following the guidelines and not vaccinated that they minimise all social contact and are suffering mental health problems as a result. I'm far more concerned about them than the prats who think they can ignore all the safety guidelines and gamble on their own personal immunity and think the vaccines are ineffective or a government conspiracy.
It is becoming somewhat irritating that the basic facts, whilst having been very well explained, are not being acted upon, in some cases wilfully.
Surely by now everyone knows:
vaccines protect you [ not in everyone and not 100%, but in the vast majority ]
vaccines protect others you are in contact with, they reduce transmission.
also wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and YES THIS WILL OFFEND, stop going out to crowded places.
People moan to me about why they can't have their operation and then spend all night in a crowded pub, spreading the virus.
If you don't know this, you should and I no longer care whether this offends you or not.
Staff in the NHS are at their limit and even has beens like me seem to be spending hours each day in meetings, trying to solve this crisis.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
Clearly not
How many more articles of this type do people need to read before the message gets through?
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-lincolnshire-hospitals-declare-072800450.html
I swing between fury and sadness about it. Unless you've been living in a cave for the last 2 years, or only getting your information from those great medical practitioners like Facebook, how can people still not see the reality?
If you are living in a cave - it won't affect you, so carry on living there.....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...