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How deep should a pond be to leave moving water at the bottom

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  • SkandiSkandi Posts: 1,723
     if the surface of the pond is totally iced over gases from decomposing vegetation will poison them
    That cannot be true, or no frog would survive without human help, I suspect the problem is that the ponds we dig are too small. a large and fairly deep natural pond will have enough stored oxygen in the water to keep everything going. I NEVER de ice my ponds, and they get enough ice to skate on, it hangs around without melting for a couple of months. I don't know how deep exactly but close to a foot. I also have more frogs than one can imagine. it is impossible to walk in July without squashing 5 babies with every footfall, mowing the lawn is mass murder.
  • Of course Skandi :) I was talking about our small garden ponds ... large skating ponds and broads such as the ones I grew up with ... and you from the sounds of things ... have enough volume of water to avoid most of the gas build up ... although I do recall
    bubbling beneath the ice in the big shallow pond which was part of the moat system around our old farmhouse. 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    I've just bought a new radio/cd for the kitchen/garden. It has two pieces of polystyrene shaped in the way I described earlier. If anyone wants a bit, let me know and I'll send it. They're about 10 x 6 inches and a couple of inches deep, with a hollow on one face. 



    The solid pieces just freeze into the surface as hogweed said. 
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • RedwingRedwing Posts: 1,511
    Even if the frogs at the bottom of the pond are ‘hibernating’ they still need oxygen ... they are still ‘breathing’ absorbing oxygen from the water through their skin ... 
    Frogs and other amphibians do not hibernate at the bottom of the pond. They spend the winter hibernating under logs and stones in places mostly protected from freezing. Adult amphibians do not absorb oxygen through their skin as you suggest. They breathe with lungs, their gills long gone. As the breeding season approaches they return to water to breed.

    Based in Sussex, I garden to encourage as many birds to my garden as possible.
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147
    edited November 2018

    With sincere respect @Redwing , you are mistaken ... all adult  amphibians absorb oxygen through their skin as well as using their lungs.

    While some frogs overwinter in log piles etc, many  overwinter in the mud at the bottom of ponds, absorbing oxygen from the water through their skin.




    :)






    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • RedwingRedwing Posts: 1,511
    Well, the following quote from your first link confirms what you say; I stand corrected.

    Frogs and toads normally overwinter in places like compost heaps, amongst dead wood or under decking/your shed/other objects. Some amphibians, usually frogs and sometimes newts, will choose to overwinter at the bottom of the pond; they bury themselves down in the silt at the bottom and take in oxygen through their skin.

    Based in Sussex, I garden to encourage as many birds to my garden as possible.
  • tu  :)

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • madpenguinmadpenguin Posts: 2,543
    One year I used a plastic football to keep an area of ice free water but it kept blowing away and had to keep searching for it all over the garden!!
    Last winter I used 2 plastic bottles and partially filled with gravel.They don't blow away and they don't sink and any breeze makes them bob around keeping a hole in the ice.
    They were no match for the 'Beast from the East' in February though and froze solid in about 4 inches of ice,but hopefully that was exceptionally bad weather!

    “Every day is ordinary, until it isn't.” - Bernard Cornwell-Death of Kings
  • SueAtooSueAtoo Posts: 380
    I have a pump and waterfall in my pond which is about 4' x 12'. I'm wondering if I should turn it off in the winter as my theory is it will take the warmer water from the bottom of the pond and return it colder and I can't think that is a good idea. Would a large airstone be better both for oxygen and keeping a small area ice free?
    East Dorset, new (to me) rather neglected garden.
  • FlyfiferFlyfifer Posts: 167
    edited November 2018
    @sueAtoo You don't Have to turn your pump off, Just lift the pump up off the bottom to about a foot (300mm) from the top.  Doing this will  circulate the top water and still allow dissolved oxygen in the pond but will stop the surface from freezing.  I have done this every winter for 25 years in a koi pond without any problems.
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