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training an old climbing wisteria into a standard tree?

FireFire Posts: 19,096
in Problem solving
I have an out of hand wisteria (triffid) in a small garden. I am toying with the idea of taking it out because I spend all summer cutting it back, as it sends out arms, to wind around next door's washing lines, trees and whips away your mug when your back is turned (kind of thing). Having seen a few stunning tree-trained wisterias on the forum's gallery I am wondering if it's possible to belatedly create a 'tree' from an old wisteria. It is malleable enough. I'm looking for any way I can save the plant while making it more manageable. It is planted amid various other large bushes, at least 20 yrs ago (not by me) so very hard to keep it pruned or contained.
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  • InglezinhoInglezinho Posts: 568
    Wow, what a lovely problem. A few years ago I went to a bonsai exhibition and saw a beautiful lilac wisteria trained as a bonsai. I would say it was at least 20 years old but was only about 3 feet tall. The Japanese gardener who had grown it told me he had first trained it upwards by tying it to a bamboo and then "wired" it so that it would achieve a nice shape. It had obviously been pruned very hard also.  I wish I had a photo to show you. You probably already have the necessary height, so it would just be a question of wiring it. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, there are several bonsai sites that show the technique. I'm not a bonsai expert, but the consensus is that the best time to do this is in summer when the new growth is just beginning to stiffen. Bonsais do not have to be grown in a pot. The Japanese often treat garden plants the same way. Good luck. Ian.
    Everyone likes butterflies. Nobody likes caterpillars.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    Thanks. It's certainly got me thinking. And you're right, it is a lovely problem to have. :)
  • Blue OnionBlue Onion Posts: 2,995
    Do you think it will be less vigorous then?  I suppose it will dip down and send sap elsewhere once it's at the top.  I would go to the DIY place and get a good lengthy of steel pipe, and drive it far down into the ground near the base.  It will sever some roots, but not like trying to put down a 4x4 wood post.  Then you'll have something sturdy to train it up against.  
    Utah, USA.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    Ah, because it's being trained vertically and not laterally? I will look up the standard advice on creating a 'wisteria tree'. 'Less vigorous' would be just fine.
  • Kitty 2Kitty 2 Posts: 5,150
    I started a standard wisteria experiment a couple of years ago, but using a new baby one. This is the website I used for instructions, it has good simple pics to follow 😉.
    http://www.angliangardener.co.uk/green_up_your_fingers/standard_Wisteria.php

    Have you got a good candidate for the trunk on your old one?  I'd get it strapped in to a strong vertical support and remove all the surplus branches to get your 'tree' shape.
    You've nothing to lose if the alternative is digging it out.  Go for it Fire 👍
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    I do have good candidates for trunks. They are kind of in the wrong place - among other bushes and against a fence, but I will go and look at the possibilities. Kitty, what of Blue's thought about the vertical hormone problem? 
  • Kitty 2Kitty 2 Posts: 5,150
    Total novice with wisteria Fire. No idea what a "vertical hormone problem" is. 
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    Ah, just that woody climbers (roses, clems, apples etc) are best trained horizontally. If you let them grow up (as they want to do) "apical dominance" means the plants' hormones will always be greatest at the tip of the lead branch. So roses will bloom at the tip of the leader. If you train sideways, you don't get so much of that and the side shoots will give far more flower and fruit.  If you suddenly train a wisteria up into a tree form, would this not become a problem? I don't think so. My current plant wiggles all over the place, rises up to about 7 ft and crawls along the ground (long story). If I trained my sprawling 12 ft plant into a tight seven ft tree, I might imagine it would be very vigorous as the rest would be pruned back. If I didn't kill it in the process.
  • Blue OnionBlue Onion Posts: 2,995
    Probably, until they reach the top and you/gravity bring them back down.  Many of the trained trees have a sort of structure at the top to weave them back down with.. what if you attached an inverted large wire hanging basket frame to the top?  That way you can weave them down different directions, and they'll get less crazy at the top or possibly break in a bad wind.  

    Like this..


    Utah, USA.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    edited May 2018
    Useful. Yes. I can imagine that some support would be important at the start. Thanks for that. Of course, now I want to try it, just to see what would happen. Sigh.
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