Redwing says:We thought .75m would be deep enough to stop it freezing in southern England. It sounds like you live in a colder place so probably right to make yours deeper.See original post
Where do people get this idea from that ponds need to be several feet deep to stop them freezing solid. Ice 3" thick is supposed to be strong enough to walk on - I don't remember ever having had anything like that depth of ice here in the English midlands. Most years we barely get 0.5". Even in the relatively cold winters we had a few years ago we didn't get all that much ice.
Dartmoor is obviously going to be colder because of the altitude, but even so Devon is one of the mildest parts of the country so I still doubt the ice would get very thick at all.
The worst thing is when this kind of advice gets applied to much smaller garden ponds, so instead of a sensible depth profile you just get a deep hole and maybe a 30cm planting shelf, but no room for truly shallow marginal areas.
Thank you Buttercupdays! I shall look into the Roseraie although I'm keen to keep single flowers in the pollinator bed and the rest of the back garden, generally. But then, there's always the front garden ? which is actually more sheltered!
I know what you mean about chomping critters - we've even had cows and ponies wandering around, trampling everything in sight! But since we put in the indeginous mixed hedge and mended the fence (even though it's not ours), we've been able to keep them on the right side. We did keep a couple of fox sized holes for use in ermergencies though and they've been used in times of dire need, too! Always ready to help our wildlife ?
No need to get aggressive Onopordum. Wildlife Trusts recomends .6 - 1m for pond depth . Pretty good recommendatio for me and they know a thing or two about wildlife ponds.
I'm not being aggressive, but it's a complete myth that English ponds are in danger of freezing to anything like that kind of depth. The fundamental trouble with the Wildlife Trusts' advice is that while it might be reasonable for larger, field-scale ponds, it's completely inappropriate for small garden ponds where broad & shallow is a much better option than small & deep. Again and again I see small ponds where the whole design is distorted by the idea that deeper is better, with the result than ponds end up with limited marginal areas, and with steeping sloping sides where plants are unable to grow.
It also fails to take into account that 'natural' unlined ponds tend to drop considerably in level through the summer through leakage, whereas ponds made with liner drop far less (inches rather than feet).
My (tiny, 2sqm) pond has shelves at about 15cm, 30cm and 70cm, and near the sides it is steep, not gently sloping. It is an issue with wildlife - I have put rocks and stone in to make exits, but need to improve it further. So the pond is not broad and shallow. My previous pond was more like that (in its tiny way). However, in Cambridgeshire where I live the summers are are often dry and warm (well, everything is changing now), and in drier periods the water receded so much that it became a complete eyesore. Ponds are a compromise between competing design criteria, and there is not a one-size-fits-all solution. A benefit of this (steeper) design is that the water temperature fluctuates less and there is a larger body of water, meaning that nutrient fluctuation is also less. As for plants, it's early days, but I don't see why steepish sides should be an issue as longs as there are marginal shelves.
This have nothing to do with freezing, I wanted to point out some other considerations. Another issue for me was soil run-off, so I have raised the pond slightly above the surrounding soil using a concrete collar (slate on top of the collar and liner). It is not a natural look (neither slate nor the raise are - the collar is hidden by some soil and planting), but it works for me.
I think there are a lot things to consider when making a wildlife pond and generally, having researched for a long time about size, siting, planting, maintenance, etc I was, to be honest, fairly confused. There are lots of conflicting advice about depth!
I understand Onopordum's assertions, generally and if living in a goldilocks location, then a shallow and broad pond might suit much better, if that's what is desired. Equally, all the photos on this thread illustrate how beautiful all wildlife ponds are.
However, in terms of the environment, when our local weather says it's been a beautiful, dry day with temps around 15, we can be sat under a blanket of snow ❄️ which never gets a mention. Likewise, when the rest of the country does have snow but it goes in a few days, we can still be snowed in after 10 days! The army has been known to close the roads to the village before now ? So, there are situations where a wildlife pond being deeper offers a stable environment for all those inhabitants who need to have consistency. The wind chill alone can take your skin off up here, believe me and there's no shelter apart from the lee of the drystone walls we put in the garden.
Micearguers, I hadn't thought of the stability of the pond in terms of nutrients, etc - very interesting. We had to build up the one end of our pond (seen in above photo) because of a slope down the garden and the camber across. Consequently, we have that area multi-shelved and will place a log and other easily accessed escapes, as it sounds like you are doing. The bog garden at that end is hopefilly going to be a nice compliment to the woodland bed at the other end and the planting all the way around it, too.
We have decided to position a couple of massive granite boulders, taken out of the soil, to act like silent guardians over the garden. We have so many! But the garden is too small for ma of the evergreen shrubs I love (viburnum Titus being one) because they get so big. So, the boulders will quickly be colonised by mosses and lychens and look beautiful standing alone in winter or when the planting engulfs them!
Now, the weather says snow ❄️ is on the way so I'd better get the Factor 50 out!
re: Bradshaw's poly flex pond liner with free underlay and lifetime guarantee
I am in the process of creating a wildlife pond which, in the short term at least, will be a temptation for my lively spaniel. Does anyone have experience of Bradshaw's poly flex pond liner with free underlay and lifetime guarantee and doggie claws? Also do we have experience of the liner's longevity apart form the length of the guarantee? Any thoughts gratefully appreciated. Sparky
Posts
Where do people get this idea from that ponds need to be several feet deep to stop them freezing solid. Ice 3" thick is supposed to be strong enough to walk on - I don't remember ever having had anything like that depth of ice here in the English midlands. Most years we barely get 0.5". Even in the relatively cold winters we had a few years ago we didn't get all that much ice.
Dartmoor is obviously going to be colder because of the altitude, but even so Devon is one of the mildest parts of the country so I still doubt the ice would get very thick at all.
The worst thing is when this kind of advice gets applied to much smaller garden ponds, so instead of a sensible depth profile you just get a deep hole and maybe a 30cm planting shelf, but no room for truly shallow marginal areas.
Thank you Buttercupdays! I shall look into the Roseraie although I'm keen to keep single flowers in the pollinator bed and the rest of the back garden, generally. But then, there's always the front garden ? which is actually more sheltered!
I know what you mean about chomping critters - we've even had cows and ponies wandering around, trampling everything in sight! But since we put in the indeginous mixed hedge and mended the fence (even though it's not ours), we've been able to keep them on the right side. We did keep a couple of fox sized holes for use in ermergencies though and they've been used in times of dire need, too! Always ready to help our wildlife ?
I'm not being aggressive, but it's a complete myth that English ponds are in danger of freezing to anything like that kind of depth. The fundamental trouble with the Wildlife Trusts' advice is that while it might be reasonable for larger, field-scale ponds, it's completely inappropriate for small garden ponds where broad & shallow is a much better option than small & deep. Again and again I see small ponds where the whole design is distorted by the idea that deeper is better, with the result than ponds end up with limited marginal areas, and with steeping sloping sides where plants are unable to grow.
It also fails to take into account that 'natural' unlined ponds tend to drop considerably in level through the summer through leakage, whereas ponds made with liner drop far less (inches rather than feet).
My (tiny, 2sqm) pond has shelves at about 15cm, 30cm and 70cm, and near the sides it is steep, not gently sloping. It is an issue with wildlife - I have put rocks and stone in to make exits, but need to improve it further. So the pond is not broad and shallow. My previous pond was more like that (in its tiny way). However, in Cambridgeshire where I live the summers are are often dry and warm (well, everything is changing now), and in drier periods the water receded so much that it became a complete eyesore. Ponds are a compromise between competing design criteria, and there is not a one-size-fits-all solution. A benefit of this (steeper) design is that the water temperature fluctuates less and there is a larger body of water, meaning that nutrient fluctuation is also less. As for plants, it's early days, but I don't see why steepish sides should be an issue as longs as there are marginal shelves.
This have nothing to do with freezing, I wanted to point out some other considerations. Another issue for me was soil run-off, so I have raised the pond slightly above the surrounding soil using a concrete collar (slate on top of the collar and liner). It is not a natural look (neither slate nor the raise are - the collar is hidden by some soil and planting), but it works for me.
I think there are a lot things to consider when making a wildlife pond and generally, having researched for a long time about size, siting, planting, maintenance, etc I was, to be honest, fairly confused. There are lots of conflicting advice about depth!
I understand Onopordum's assertions, generally and if living in a goldilocks location, then a shallow and broad pond might suit much better, if that's what is desired. Equally, all the photos on this thread illustrate how beautiful all wildlife ponds are.
However, in terms of the environment, when our local weather says it's been a beautiful, dry day with temps around 15, we can be sat under a blanket of snow ❄️ which never gets a mention. Likewise, when the rest of the country does have snow but it goes in a few days, we can still be snowed in after 10 days! The army has been known to close the roads to the village before now ? So, there are situations where a wildlife pond being deeper offers a stable environment for all those inhabitants who need to have consistency. The wind chill alone can take your skin off up here, believe me and there's no shelter apart from the lee of the drystone walls we put in the garden.
Micearguers, I hadn't thought of the stability of the pond in terms of nutrients, etc - very interesting. We had to build up the one end of our pond (seen in above photo) because of a slope down the garden and the camber across. Consequently, we have that area multi-shelved and will place a log and other easily accessed escapes, as it sounds like you are doing. The bog garden at that end is hopefilly going to be a nice compliment to the woodland bed at the other end and the planting all the way around it, too.
We have decided to position a couple of massive granite boulders, taken out of the soil, to act like silent guardians over the garden. We have so many! But the garden is too small for ma of the evergreen shrubs I love (viburnum Titus being one) because they get so big. So, the boulders will quickly be colonised by mosses and lychens and look beautiful standing alone in winter or when the planting engulfs them!
Now, the weather says snow ❄️ is on the way so I'd better get the Factor 50 out!
?
I meant TiNus, obviously. My roman emperor fixation keeps getting the better of my typing! ?
re: Bradshaw's poly flex pond liner with free underlay and lifetime guarantee
I am in the process of creating a wildlife pond which, in the short term at least, will be a temptation for my lively spaniel.
Does anyone have experience of Bradshaw's poly flex pond liner with free underlay and lifetime guarantee and doggie claws?
Also do we have experience of the liner's longevity apart form the length of the guarantee?
Any thoughts gratefully appreciated.
Sparky