The whole idea is ridiculous.Just stop cutting down the rainforest and sort out China andUSA pollution and the world would be a lot better off .Our little country doing bits and bats is not even a drop in the ocean .If electric cars save the planet I’ll eat my very expensive Wedding hat that comes out on every possible occasion.
It's not missing, exactly, but data that can help in the understanding of that sort of chart is to know the cost of energy in those countries. The cost of electricity in Sweden is less than half that in Italy (per unit, as an average). The Netherlands isn't much higher than Sweden's. And gas in Sweden is relatively expensive - not quite double the cost in the UK (which has the cheapest gas prices).
The more it costs, the less gets wasted.
Except in Germany, where it's all expensive.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
The whole idea is ridiculous.Just s op cutting down the rainforest and sort out China andUSA pollution and the world would be a lot better off .Our little country doing bits and bats is not even a drop in the ocean .If electric cars save the planet I’ll eat my very expensive Wedding hat that comes out on every possible occasion.
Yes, you're right of course, the idea of any one whole idea saving the planet is ridiculous, and yes, I agree:
If we all make sure that we don't use products which cause the rainforests to be cut down (most of the meat we eat, anything with palm oil in it, new clothing, a lot of the wood we use etc),
If we actually make choices to massively cut down on the technology and many other products that we each buy from China.
If we stop buying products from companies that give huge amounts of money to the American Republican Party.
Then yes, the world would be a lot better off. But let's not fall for the myth that we're powerless.
.. and make sure you cook it properly first, and have good gravy 😉
Ha ha ! I actually do watch what I buy ……..a lot of my clothes come from 2 nd hand shops and I try to avoid food miles etc , I guess it’s just the old ‘ hippie’ in me even the hat which you suggest I eat with gravy comes from a closing down sale 5 years ago ,so I guess I do my bit ,still sceptical about the electric cars but.
"I disagree there. I would say that differences are as important as similarities for learning."
...but what are you learning?
The thing i picked up on was the stark difference in energy use between UK and the the Netherlands - which is my normal continental comparator for England having similarity in so many aspects (apart from flatness compared to the fortunate areas England).
And the very different numbers around emissions and energy use.
Has anyone thought about 20 years on when the electric cars are worn out ? What happens to all the batteries and miscellaneous etc ,how do we dispose of it
maybe dump it along with the nuclear waste we don't know what to do with either?
That's coming along - at the moment there are relatively few to reuse / recycle. It will first of all be reuse in appropriate applications (eg time-shifting / buffering energy on the grid), then recycling. I think in Europe we are about to see laws requiring certain recycling levels. Here's an interesting piece: https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/840/how-recyclable-are-batteries-electric-cars
Renault are one to watch since they retain ownership of nearly all their batteries.
We got our car for £1600 3 years ago (our first car BTW, we didn't need one before moving to the countryside). And it can take us to the nearest international airport (100 miles) and back. It will take a long time before decent electric cars (higher range) hit the 2nd hand market.
I think you may be surprised. Plenty of cheap hybrids already available secondhand, of course. I am sure that "bangergnomics" has a future, but it will be a different future.
It's not missing, exactly, but data that can help in the understanding of that sort of chart is to know the cost of energy in those countries. The cost of electricity in Sweden is less than half that in Italy (per unit, as an average). The Netherlands isn't much higher than Sweden's. And gas in Sweden is relatively expensive - not quite double the cost in the UK (which has the cheapest gas prices).
The more it costs, the less gets wasted.
Except in Germany, where it's all expensive.
I think there's quite a lot in that - though Germany still seems to manage high usage. But they had a brainstorm shift from nuclear power back to fossil fuels at the time of the Japanese nuclear accident, and are still to recover from that.
One answer is a carbon tax on everything. But politicians are far too addicted to populist ideas like cheap fuel, rather than difficult ones like high quality renovations to existing houses by people who can afford it. We saw what happened when Ken Clarke tried to put VAT on fuel in the early (?) 1990s.
The whole idea is ridiculous.Just stop cutting down the rainforest and sort out China andUSA pollution and the world would be a lot better off .Our little country doing bits and bats is not even a drop in the ocean .If electric cars save the planet I’ll eat my very expensive Wedding hat that comes out on every possible occasion.
TBH I think that is a bit of a platitude.
I don't buy the idea of a top 10 world economy being a "little country". Ditto the other 3 in Europe in the same category.
I'd also argue that being an efficient (both wrt energy and wrt emissions) economy is where a prosperous future lies.
F
“Rivers know this ... we will get there in the end.”
I appreciate your expertise in the subject @Ferdinand2000 , your data sources and analysis. Thanks for taking the time to share all this, and for your approach.
Has anyone thought about 20 years on when the electric cars are worn out ? What happens to all the batteries and miscellaneous etc ,how do we dispose of it
I appreciate your expertise in the subject @Ferdinand2000 , your data sources and analysis. Thanks for taking the time to share all this, and for your approach.
Thanks. Though there's probably loads in there that is wrong
It's a red flag that I have something important I am avoiding doing.
“Rivers know this ... we will get there in the end.”
Just an update on this topic. We have been without a dishwasher for six months during a kitchen revamp, so I’ve been washing up by hand. ( bowls of hot soapy water, plus final rinse in running hot water ) The water bill has recently come in, and I have checked this six moths useage against the previous two years. In 2019, we used 40 cubic metres, in 2020, 35 cubic metres. This half year, we used 45 cubic metres, and the only major difference I can identify is the dishwasher. New one installed, thank goodness, and using a miserly 4 to 6 litres per wash.
Posts
The more it costs, the less gets wasted.
Except in Germany, where it's all expensive.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Which "company in France" do you mean?
And the very different numbers around emissions and energy use.
That's coming along - at the moment there are relatively few to reuse / recycle. It will first of all be reuse in appropriate applications (eg time-shifting / buffering energy on the grid), then recycling. I think in Europe we are about to see laws requiring certain recycling levels. Here's an interesting piece:
https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/840/how-recyclable-are-batteries-electric-cars
Renault are one to watch since they retain ownership of nearly all their batteries.
I think you may be surprised. Plenty of cheap hybrids already available secondhand, of course. I am sure that "bangergnomics" has a future, but it will be a different future.
I think there's quite a lot in that - though Germany still seems to manage high usage. But they had a brainstorm shift from nuclear power back to fossil fuels at the time of the Japanese nuclear accident, and are still to recover from that.
One answer is a carbon tax on everything. But politicians are far too addicted to populist ideas like cheap fuel, rather than difficult ones like high quality renovations to existing houses by people who can afford it. We saw what happened when Ken Clarke tried to put VAT on fuel in the early (?) 1990s.
TBH I think that is a bit of a platitude.
I don't buy the idea of a top 10 world economy being a "little country". Ditto the other 3 in Europe in the same category.
I'd also argue that being an efficient (both wrt energy and wrt emissions) economy is where a prosperous future lies.
F
There recycled like any other battery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpe8HalVXFU
'The power of accurate observation .... is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it.
George Bernard Shaw'
It's a red flag that I have something important I am avoiding doing.